The Williamsburg bridge is closed in both directions. Lots of helicopters in the air. This is one block from my apartment. Not sure what is happening.
According to Fox News (Faux News) 3 men of middle eastern decent have been arrested repelling off the bridge. Supposedly there are "suspicious packages" somewhere. I gather that something is happening at the Manhattan bridge as well. But Fox keeps saying they don't know any of this for sure. Traffic must be a mess. Also the J, M, and Z trains are shut down as well (they use the W'burg.)
Heh. Turns out it was 2 drunk guys who were heading home in the early morning hours and decided to scale the Manhattan side tower of the Williamsburg bridge.
Apparently the part about them being "of Middle Eastern descent" and the part about "repelling" were incorrect.
Got panic?
Certainly Middle Easterners are not decent; any such suggestion aids our enemies!
And don't get me started on who's repellent...
Whoops. Must be the fog of terror clouding my spelling. Or that's my story at least.
Frog of War
I think you stupid Americans should be cast a spell on and made to experience the disaster your gevernment is causing around the world. Maybe then, your ethnocentric, racist, and arrogant ideologies will disipate.
The fact that you popular media would attempt to characterize these drunken idiots as Middle Eastern before even getting the full story as to what's going on goes to show how feeble minded you all are.
May God help you, because from the looks of things now, you folks are seeting yourselves up for major catastrophies.
Without getting into a flame war over all the events happening around the world, the question that needs addressing is "Why were these men described as "of Middle Eastern decent"?
Looks like the irony in your comment didn't make it through to everyone.
Well, you can see I'm in the unenviable position of being attacked by "patriotic" Americans in one thread (who think I'm a traitor and wish me to be both round up, and shot) and now here by enraged foreigners (I'm assuming.) What can I do? Probably there is some way to interpret this double negative feedback in a positive way, but I'll leave that for another time.
In any case, if anyone is seriously interested in discussing the racial basis of war, you could do worse than to start here.
To directly answer the second anoymous interlocutor I'll say that the short answer is pretty simple: they were described as being of "Middle Eastern descent" because most of the U.S. is prone to quick racial characterizations, and many of us are in a freakin' panic over terrorism originating from the "middle east". That this panic does not allow for racist behavior I think would be clear. But, sadly, note that this is not a new thing. We had this same discussion after the Oklahoma City bombing where the initial media reports were calling it a terrorist attack perpetrated by middle eastern men. So, while many Americans are aware of the racism inherent in our discourse, many are not, and many more are willing to put aside clear thought in moments of crisis.
I might add that others, around the world, do exactly the same. Of course this doesn't excuse anything. I might also add that I live in what I believe to be the most racially integrated city in the world. But that's just to make me feel better about the chances of Americans rising above these things.
To the other comment I'm only reply that you might want to think of the a priori problem with accusing an entire people of racism and ethnocentricity...
Yeah, we've had a few incidents of jokes being misunderstood lately. Like I said, people take things very seriously in wartime, but all the more reason to keep the speech options open. The net is interesting as it supports our intimate conversation (where jocularity is likely to be understood) but also makes it available to a broader audience, which may have difficulties with interpretation. Sorry if I've confused anyone, but when I'm confused I read further, hoping to get a better idea of what's being said, but maybe the problem isn't confusion, but too much certainty…
Right, you can figure that most people who would find that thread already have an opinion one way or another. I often forget that dmtree is not a chat room for a small group of friends.
too earthy, not enough tannins.
the result of 6 months on the left coast. I'm an asshole, let's hug.
as anyone who has spent too many hours watching bad sitcoms (redundant?) will tell you, the essence of comedy is repetition. so dont let some lowbrow dissuade you from your liquoring literacy efforts. i had some 1998 australian grenache at AKA the other day (which im sure someone else could supply the brand) and it was too earthy, not enough tannins for my tastes.
but really, hugging, thats so left coast. maybe we need couples counseling.
I wasn't referring to the wine jargon but to my attempt at diplomacy; Too flabby, not enough rigor.
On the other hand, I've seen others spend far more on much worse.
bit of info on the williamsburg bridge (non) incident: my friends ellen and colin live in williamsburg and were taking an early morning walk over and back that morning. they saw the three guys ascending the bridge and stopped a police car on the bridge and told him. he asked them what ethnicity they were. they said they looked white, that one had a beard, and that they looked like college students... this was at 6.40 am. the news reports said that the men were seen descending the bridge at 8 am. my friends think the cop they told didn't do anything. either way, it took them all a hell of a long time to figure out it was three drunk guys with no bombs involved. (the helicopters were hovering above the bridge til after 10 am. and doesn't give you a whole lot of faith in homeland security.
Folks,I'm not going to sit here and attempt to undermine or support your "patriotism"; rather I would leave a bit that we should all be wary of the information that is passed along via the "media". The media, whether domestic or foreign, are mere tools of the respective government to engineer the minds of its denizens towards a particular attitide or stance. Americans are not exempt from this reality, irrespective of what the constitution says.
Everything the popular media dictates to you is not always true. When you allow "spun" information to direct you, you merely become one of the millions of mindless drones walking about out there. Rather gather your information variate sources and tease them apart in correlation to the "reality" of what's actually going on.
The very fact that we are prone to believe whatever utterances the media makes indicates how deeply conditioned we've become to this fortified cushion we call "America". So fortified, that any information that doesn't seem to support this idealized notion of "America" even in the slightest bit, almost immediately elicits demands for the termination of the source of that information.
In essence, don't fall further victim to the psychological warfare that we face everyday, because most of us don't even know that it is going on.
thats "news" to me. also, i was not aware that the constitution guarantees us the freedom from lies. is that in the bill of rights? next youre going to tell me that president bush lied when he said he did everything within his power to avoid the war. how can you look at yourself in the mirror every day? maybe you should consider moving to "france." then youll understand what "freedom" "really" "means."
1. Before you determine if you have been lied to or not, first of all determine what one's motivations would be to tell you the truth.
2. Because France "appears" to oppose the US does not transform her into a bastion of "truth".
3. What exactly is this "freedom" that we all so highly esteem?
Please debate these issues with thorough reason. This is not an attempt to mindlessly bash the US or promote some idea over another. I want us to discuss these matters with the intellect of mature adults. Also I am not some arrogant buncum who pretends to know everything; let this be a mutual learning experience.
noone has ever accused me of being a mature adult, i assure you. but as it turns out, you are, as they say, preaching to the choir. my last post was a joke. everyone that regularly inhabits these pages is highly cynical of the motives of this and every government and the media. as for a thoroughly reasoned debate, youll have to wait for one of our more level-headed denizens to chime in.
Welcome to the tree. Why don't you surf this site a bit? try hitting the home button at the bottom of the page. Once there check out dratfink, Mr. Wilson's Arboretum, Tom Moody, etc...even better, take a look at jimslog It's his page you are posting your comments to. You'll see that most of the people here are somewhat sympathetic to your views. There are other pages, but skip 'em. They belong to a bunch of uptight uptight, in your face, closed minded, assholes.
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- jim 3-28-2003 5:08 pm
According to Fox News (Faux News) 3 men of middle eastern decent have been arrested repelling off the bridge. Supposedly there are "suspicious packages" somewhere. I gather that something is happening at the Manhattan bridge as well. But Fox keeps saying they don't know any of this for sure. Traffic must be a mess. Also the J, M, and Z trains are shut down as well (they use the W'burg.)
- jim 3-28-2003 5:21 pm
Heh. Turns out it was 2 drunk guys who were heading home in the early morning hours and decided to scale the Manhattan side tower of the Williamsburg bridge.
Apparently the part about them being "of Middle Eastern descent" and the part about "repelling" were incorrect.
Got panic?
- jim 3-28-2003 5:45 pm
Certainly Middle Easterners are not decent; any such suggestion aids our enemies!
- alex 3-28-2003 5:49 pm
And don't get me started on who's repellent...
- alex 3-28-2003 5:51 pm
Whoops. Must be the fog of terror clouding my spelling. Or that's my story at least.
- jim 3-28-2003 5:53 pm
Frog of War
- alex 3-28-2003 6:03 pm
I think you stupid Americans should be cast a spell on and made to experience the disaster your gevernment is causing around the world. Maybe then, your ethnocentric, racist, and arrogant ideologies will disipate.
The fact that you popular media would attempt to characterize these drunken idiots as Middle Eastern before even getting the full story as to what's going on goes to show how feeble minded you all are.
May God help you, because from the looks of things now, you folks are seeting yourselves up for major catastrophies.
- anonymous (guest) 3-31-2003 4:15 pm
Without getting into a flame war over all the events happening around the world, the question that needs addressing is "Why were these men described as "of Middle Eastern decent"?
- anonymous (guest) 3-31-2003 4:22 pm
Looks like the irony in your comment didn't make it through to everyone.
- steve 3-31-2003 5:48 pm
Well, you can see I'm in the unenviable position of being attacked by "patriotic" Americans in one thread (who think I'm a traitor and wish me to be both round up, and shot) and now here by enraged foreigners (I'm assuming.) What can I do? Probably there is some way to interpret this double negative feedback in a positive way, but I'll leave that for another time.
In any case, if anyone is seriously interested in discussing the racial basis of war, you could do worse than to start here.
To directly answer the second anoymous interlocutor I'll say that the short answer is pretty simple: they were described as being of "Middle Eastern descent" because most of the U.S. is prone to quick racial characterizations, and many of us are in a freakin' panic over terrorism originating from the "middle east". That this panic does not allow for racist behavior I think would be clear. But, sadly, note that this is not a new thing. We had this same discussion after the Oklahoma City bombing where the initial media reports were calling it a terrorist attack perpetrated by middle eastern men. So, while many Americans are aware of the racism inherent in our discourse, many are not, and many more are willing to put aside clear thought in moments of crisis.
I might add that others, around the world, do exactly the same. Of course this doesn't excuse anything. I might also add that I live in what I believe to be the most racially integrated city in the world. But that's just to make me feel better about the chances of Americans rising above these things.
To the other comment I'm only reply that you might want to think of the a priori problem with accusing an entire people of racism and ethnocentricity...
- jim 3-31-2003 6:02 pm
Yeah, we've had a few incidents of jokes being misunderstood lately. Like I said, people take things very seriously in wartime, but all the more reason to keep the speech options open. The net is interesting as it supports our intimate conversation (where jocularity is likely to be understood) but also makes it available to a broader audience, which may have difficulties with interpretation. Sorry if I've confused anyone, but when I'm confused I read further, hoping to get a better idea of what's being said, but maybe the problem isn't confusion, but too much certainty…
- alex 3-31-2003 6:26 pm
Right, you can figure that most people who would find that thread already have an opinion one way or another. I often forget that dmtree is not a chat room for a small group of friends.
- steve 3-31-2003 6:55 pm
too earthy, not enough tannins.
- dave 3-31-2003 7:27 pm
the result of 6 months on the left coast. I'm an asshole, let's hug.
- steve 3-31-2003 8:25 pm
as anyone who has spent too many hours watching bad sitcoms (redundant?) will tell you, the essence of comedy is repetition. so dont let some lowbrow dissuade you from your liquoring literacy efforts. i had some 1998 australian grenache at AKA the other day (which im sure someone else could supply the brand) and it was too earthy, not enough tannins for my tastes.
but really, hugging, thats so left coast. maybe we need couples counseling.
- dave 3-31-2003 8:43 pm
I wasn't referring to the wine jargon but to my attempt at diplomacy; Too flabby, not enough rigor.
On the other hand, I've seen others spend far more on much worse.
- steve 3-31-2003 8:54 pm
bit of info on the williamsburg bridge (non) incident: my friends ellen and colin live in williamsburg and were taking an early morning walk over and back that morning. they saw the three guys ascending the bridge and stopped a police car on the bridge and told him. he asked them what ethnicity they were. they said they looked white, that one had a beard, and that they looked like college students... this was at 6.40 am. the news reports said that the men were seen descending the bridge at 8 am. my friends think the cop they told didn't do anything. either way, it took them all a hell of a long time to figure out it was three drunk guys with no bombs involved. (the helicopters were hovering above the bridge til after 10 am. and doesn't give you a whole lot of faith in homeland security.
- julie 4-01-2003 1:40 am
Folks,I'm not going to sit here and attempt to undermine or support your "patriotism"; rather I would leave a bit that we should all be wary of the information that is passed along via the "media". The media, whether domestic or foreign, are mere tools of the respective government to engineer the minds of its denizens towards a particular attitide or stance. Americans are not exempt from this reality, irrespective of what the constitution says.
Everything the popular media dictates to you is not always true. When you allow "spun" information to direct you, you merely become one of the millions of mindless drones walking about out there. Rather gather your information variate sources and tease them apart in correlation to the "reality" of what's actually going on.
The very fact that we are prone to believe whatever utterances the media makes indicates how deeply conditioned we've become to this fortified cushion we call "America". So fortified, that any information that doesn't seem to support this idealized notion of "America" even in the slightest bit, almost immediately elicits demands for the termination of the source of that information.
In essence, don't fall further victim to the psychological warfare that we face everyday, because most of us don't even know that it is going on.
- anonymous (guest) 4-01-2003 4:06 am
thats "news" to me. also, i was not aware that the constitution guarantees us the freedom from lies. is that in the bill of rights? next youre going to tell me that president bush lied when he said he did everything within his power to avoid the war. how can you look at yourself in the mirror every day? maybe you should consider moving to "france." then youll understand what "freedom" "really" "means."
- dave 4-01-2003 4:32 am
1. Before you determine if you have been lied to or not, first of all determine what one's motivations would be to tell you the truth.
2. Because France "appears" to oppose the US does not transform her into a bastion of "truth".
3. What exactly is this "freedom" that we all so highly esteem?
Please debate these issues with thorough reason. This is not an attempt to mindlessly bash the US or promote some idea over another. I want us to discuss these matters with the intellect of mature adults. Also I am not some arrogant buncum who pretends to know everything; let this be a mutual learning experience.
- anonymous (guest) 4-01-2003 5:04 am
noone has ever accused me of being a mature adult, i assure you. but as it turns out, you are, as they say, preaching to the choir. my last post was a joke. everyone that regularly inhabits these pages is highly cynical of the motives of this and every government and the media. as for a thoroughly reasoned debate, youll have to wait for one of our more level-headed denizens to chime in.
- dave 4-01-2003 5:22 am
Welcome to the tree. Why don't you surf this site a bit? try hitting the home button at the bottom of the page. Once there check out dratfink, Mr. Wilson's Arboretum, Tom Moody, etc...even better, take a look at jimslog It's his page you are posting your comments to. You'll see that most of the people here are somewhat sympathetic to your views. There are other pages, but skip 'em. They belong to a bunch of uptight uptight, in your face, closed minded, assholes.
- steve 4-01-2003 7:06 am