Ratzinger.
(no fucking comment)
(fuck)
alas, not Martini.
alas indeed.
I just went out to run errands in my Catholic neighbourhood and already managed to slander the new pope, so I feel a bit better.
nice picture! eek.
Nosferatu lives!
So, who is this Ratzinger dude?
he's the pope. LM can do the back story.
Yeah, but who was he before he became a direct link to the Deity?
He was the Vatican's doctrinal watchdog, an office formerly known as the inquisition. (slightly to the right of Pinochet).
And don't forget that being a member of The Hitler Youth was not the same as joining the Nazi party!
Ratzinger Fan Club
His fan site seems to be down right now, overwhelmed with everyone ordering those Ratzinger Beer Steins.
His not-fan site (scroll down) for today is:
Daily Kos
This spoiled a perfect fiveness and rectangularity day for me.
Aaah, it's all abstract. Brutish and cruel, but abstract.
Not all Germans are/were Nazis.
A clarification:
1) Considering his age/time/place/youth, young Herr Ratzinger was probably forced into the Hitler Youth, much like H.Boll or J.Beuys were forced into the army/air force. This in itself does not make him a Nazi.
2) His extreme right viewpoint, which denies the essential rights of at least half of our world population, based upon an authoritarian-father-knows-best-don't -fucking-argue-with-me viewpoint, I leave it to you to determine if he is a quote 'Nazi' in this particular context.
3) Not all Germans are/were Nazis.
4) 'Nazism' is a 20th century cultural phenomenon of a certain place and time. In the 21st century this particular context is mostly gone. But it is an intriguing practice to observe some odd correlations of this ethos re-expressed in our comtemporary era.
From Steve Gilliard's blog:
To call the new pope a Nazi demeans the most courageous act in the man's life, running from a Luftwaffe AA battery in a fit of common sense. The Nazis were big on roadside executions and unlike some of the Hitler Youth, he wasn't going to die for Hitler. There were plenty of people willing to ensure that you did. So he deserves ample credit for refusing to fight and to surrender to the Americans instead.
[...]
Nazi is the cheap word, he was a kid press ganged into the war and ran when he got a chance. The right phrase is Cold War reactionary. His opposition to change allowed John Paul II to maintain his conservative doctrine, yet be popular.
[...]
The guy is even detested in Germany, where a poll showed that 36 percent of Germans dislike him. So when he starts prattling on about the gays and the priesthood and divorce, expect to see the west stop giving money.
If you wanted a pope to make all the current problems worse, he's the man. John Paul II coated his reactionary policies with oodles of charm, which made them easy to ignore, like the rantings of grandpa about shooting Germans at Cassino. But Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, has no such charm. Many of the people smiling today will ramp up their calls for fundamental change in the church tomorrow.
Well put, Von bark. A very interesting aside was that according to Boll's autobiography about growing up during WW2, he mentions a meeting of his strongly anti-Nazi family, where it was decided that one member would have to join the Hitler youth to keep the SS of their case. I seem to recall that his older brother was the sacrificial goat. (I'd have to double check that)
In response (or perhaps in addition) to your second point, he has stated in the past that if the rigours of Catholicism (his version) are too much for it's believers, it is better to have a church of smaller size with greater purity. In the context of a discussion of WW2, a statement like this can resonate in the most repulsive way.
If you pay any attention to the international press, especially English and German, the discourse has boiled down to:
E: "Your pope's a Nazi!"
G: "So is your Prince Harry!"
Added to the long list of things "The Pope doesn't Like", that everyone has heard about by now, is his opposition to altar girls. The theological source for this would perhaps be in the writings of St. Jerome and St. Tertullian, two fathers of the early church, who were hopelessly distracted by the sight of the female form and wrote of it in the most AMAZING detail.
Lastly, he's reportedly to be against Yoga. (it puts people in touch with their bodies). Note to Sally, I have already warned our mutual friend R.D. to watch her back.
His political stance has softened since his early Nazi-Youth days.
Billmon contrasts Ratzinger with three kids who refused to join the Hitler Youth, and instead joined the White Rose Society, a resistance group that spoke out against German state tyranny. They were guillotined. Too tough a comparison? Too unfair? How low does your country have to sink before you are prepared to die? How many of us would have that kind of courage?
good questions, Tom.
the times had this piece on his hatred of radical students from '68.
He hits a lot of nerves, doesn't he?
I am fascinated with the current intersection of the Vatican and WW2. Both the actions and the silence of Pope Pius XII during that war are ambiguous and troubling for many historians. It's a loaded subject with a lot of nuanced arguments about the context of Nazi occupied Rome. (although many complain that his nuanced response to the Nazis IS the problem) There also was, recently discovered, a document from 1946 by Pius XII ordering that Jewish babies who were baptized to protect them from the Nazis should not be returned to their parents.
This background is necessary to understand the shitstorm that is going to take place in the media when the new (german) Pope continues the process of canonizing Pius XII (in all fairness the process was started by JP II.)
The Vatican already ran into controversy in 1998 over the canonization of the incredibly complex and brilliant Edith Stein, who, as a converted catholic nun was exterminated in Auschwitz. (the obvious argument that she was killed for being born Jewish rather than for being a Catholic Nun is lost in a manipulative process to convince us that the holocaust victimized Catholics in a major way, absolving the Vatican of any blame for it's conduct in relation to the final solution)
Gosh...I do go on...but it's all so fucking fascinating.
In case anyone wonderd I was trying to be funny...point out the irony...
I got it. He actually doesn't hit any nerves with me. I'm not Catholic, but I don't look to any churches at this point--especially one that entrenched--for moral leadership. It's one thing to say you oppose war, it's another to encourage parishioners to get out in the streets, lie in front of tanks, etc. No Pope would ever do that, because the church is part of the power structure (to use some old 60s terminology).
When you say power structure, Tom, it makes it sound like a jigsaw piece in a geopolitical puzzle. My fascination (and horror) with this particular institution is that it's shape is so amorphous and it's constituency is so large. I've always viewed it as a major political power, rather than a moral power. I am just as wary of the American Evangelical movement, but Catholicism also invokes a very strong aesthetic response (and I have never figured out a way to handle it as an artist.)
|
Ratzinger.
(no fucking comment)
(fuck)
- L.M. 4-19-2005 8:47 pm
alas, not Martini.
- sally mckay 4-19-2005 8:57 pm
alas indeed.
I just went out to run errands in my Catholic neighbourhood and already managed to slander the new pope, so I feel a bit better.
- L.M. 4-19-2005 9:31 pm
nice picture! eek.
- sally mckay 4-19-2005 10:47 pm
Nosferatu lives!
- tom moody 4-19-2005 10:48 pm
So, who is this Ratzinger dude?
- tom moody 4-19-2005 10:49 pm
he's the pope. LM can do the back story.
- sally mckay 4-19-2005 10:54 pm
Yeah, but who was he before he became a direct link to the Deity?
- tom moody 4-19-2005 11:03 pm
He was the Vatican's doctrinal watchdog, an office formerly known as the inquisition. (slightly to the right of Pinochet).
And don't forget that being a member of The Hitler Youth was not the same as joining the Nazi party!
Ratzinger Fan Club
His fan site seems to be down right now, overwhelmed with everyone ordering those Ratzinger Beer Steins.
His not-fan site (scroll down) for today is:
Daily Kos
- L.M. 4-19-2005 11:20 pm
This spoiled a perfect fiveness and rectangularity day for me.
- L.M. 4-19-2005 11:24 pm
Aaah, it's all abstract. Brutish and cruel, but abstract.
- sally mckay 4-19-2005 11:32 pm
Not all Germans are/were Nazis.
- Tino (guest) 4-21-2005 11:42 pm
A clarification:
1) Considering his age/time/place/youth, young Herr Ratzinger was probably forced into the Hitler Youth, much like H.Boll or J.Beuys were forced into the army/air force. This in itself does not make him a Nazi.
2) His extreme right viewpoint, which denies the essential rights of at least half of our world population, based upon an authoritarian-father-knows-best-don't -fucking-argue-with-me viewpoint, I leave it to you to determine if he is a quote 'Nazi' in this particular context.
3) Not all Germans are/were Nazis.
4) 'Nazism' is a 20th century cultural phenomenon of a certain place and time. In the 21st century this particular context is mostly gone. But it is an intriguing practice to observe some odd correlations of this ethos re-expressed in our comtemporary era.
- Von Bark (guest) 4-22-2005 7:21 am
From Steve Gilliard's blog:
- tom moody 4-22-2005 8:44 am
Well put, Von bark. A very interesting aside was that according to Boll's autobiography about growing up during WW2, he mentions a meeting of his strongly anti-Nazi family, where it was decided that one member would have to join the Hitler youth to keep the SS of their case. I seem to recall that his older brother was the sacrificial goat. (I'd have to double check that)
In response (or perhaps in addition) to your second point, he has stated in the past that if the rigours of Catholicism (his version) are too much for it's believers, it is better to have a church of smaller size with greater purity. In the context of a discussion of WW2, a statement like this can resonate in the most repulsive way.
If you pay any attention to the international press, especially English and German, the discourse has boiled down to:
E: "Your pope's a Nazi!"
G: "So is your Prince Harry!"
- L.M. 4-22-2005 6:34 pm
Added to the long list of things "The Pope doesn't Like", that everyone has heard about by now, is his opposition to altar girls. The theological source for this would perhaps be in the writings of St. Jerome and St. Tertullian, two fathers of the early church, who were hopelessly distracted by the sight of the female form and wrote of it in the most AMAZING detail.
Lastly, he's reportedly to be against Yoga. (it puts people in touch with their bodies). Note to Sally, I have already warned our mutual friend R.D. to watch her back.
- L.M. 4-22-2005 6:49 pm
His political stance has softened since his early Nazi-Youth days.
- steve 4-24-2005 12:53 am
Billmon contrasts Ratzinger with three kids who refused to join the Hitler Youth, and instead joined the White Rose Society, a resistance group that spoke out against German state tyranny. They were guillotined. Too tough a comparison? Too unfair? How low does your country have to sink before you are prepared to die? How many of us would have that kind of courage?
- tom moody 4-24-2005 1:22 am
good questions, Tom.
- sally mckay 4-24-2005 3:26 am
the times had this piece on his hatred of radical students from '68.
- bill 4-24-2005 5:45 pm
He hits a lot of nerves, doesn't he?
I am fascinated with the current intersection of the Vatican and WW2. Both the actions and the silence of Pope Pius XII during that war are ambiguous and troubling for many historians. It's a loaded subject with a lot of nuanced arguments about the context of Nazi occupied Rome. (although many complain that his nuanced response to the Nazis IS the problem) There also was, recently discovered, a document from 1946 by Pius XII ordering that Jewish babies who were baptized to protect them from the Nazis should not be returned to their parents.
This background is necessary to understand the shitstorm that is going to take place in the media when the new (german) Pope continues the process of canonizing Pius XII (in all fairness the process was started by JP II.)
The Vatican already ran into controversy in 1998 over the canonization of the incredibly complex and brilliant Edith Stein, who, as a converted catholic nun was exterminated in Auschwitz. (the obvious argument that she was killed for being born Jewish rather than for being a Catholic Nun is lost in a manipulative process to convince us that the holocaust victimized Catholics in a major way, absolving the Vatican of any blame for it's conduct in relation to the final solution)
Gosh...I do go on...but it's all so fucking fascinating.
- L.M. 4-25-2005 1:35 am
In case anyone wonderd I was trying to be funny...point out the irony...
- steve 4-25-2005 8:04 pm
I got it. He actually doesn't hit any nerves with me. I'm not Catholic, but I don't look to any churches at this point--especially one that entrenched--for moral leadership. It's one thing to say you oppose war, it's another to encourage parishioners to get out in the streets, lie in front of tanks, etc. No Pope would ever do that, because the church is part of the power structure (to use some old 60s terminology).
- tom moody 4-25-2005 8:20 pm
When you say power structure, Tom, it makes it sound like a jigsaw piece in a geopolitical puzzle. My fascination (and horror) with this particular institution is that it's shape is so amorphous and it's constituency is so large. I've always viewed it as a major political power, rather than a moral power. I am just as wary of the American Evangelical movement, but Catholicism also invokes a very strong aesthetic response (and I have never figured out a way to handle it as an artist.)
- L.M. 4-25-2005 9:22 pm