On the first day the nest had three little pale blue dotted eggs. On the second day one egg was missing, one was hanging in the tree and there was a big fat brown spotted egg smack in the middle of things. Cowbird infiltrating a chipping sparrow nest?
I was just reading a recently discovered thing about how female cowbirds will lurk around the surrogate nest, and beat the crap out of the host bird if it messes with her eggs.
Huh. That shows a bit of maternal investment. The cowbird link I posted says that they can lay up to 80 eggs in a two-month period.
If a cowbird goes to the trouble of replacing original nest eggs with her own, rather than just adding to the nest, does this mean that birds can count?
Could someone not me get on that?
Potatoes can count, why not birds?
I'm not sure if the egg-replacing bit is always part of the program. That might have been a happy accident. From what I gather, the aggro cow-chick takes care of it's rivals by hatching early.
Animals can count.
I've taken a herding dog on hikes with other people/dogs. He seems to do head counts on a regular basis. He really doesn't like it if the group doesn't stay together. That's not quite the same as counting indistinguishable items.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070305202649.htm
What a great post...way to go getting all that on camera. What an adventure! I loved that article that Rob posted...incredible.
If you, or any of your visitors likes animals and animal culture(of course animals can count, they also teach their kids to wash up) read The Ape and The Sushi Master by deWaal.
I was about to declare that they are vindictive little fuckers after reading Rob's link, but according to this study cuckoos are nastier.
Where's my gun? (Can't tell the difference so I'll shoot a swan.)
"Additional tests by Hauser and other researchers reveal that monkeys can count up to four. The human ability to count to higher numbers apparently came only after we evolved language and developed words to describe quantities like 25 and 1,000.
Some human cultures still don't use large numbers. The Hadza people, hunter-gatherers in Tanzania, for example, have words only for "one," "two," and "three"; anything more is "many." They are aware that a picture with 30 dots displays a larger number than one with 20 dots (as are monkeys), but they have no words for the precise numbers of dots."
Sometimes I suspected that Rocco understood infinity.
Sally, that sounds like one of those fucked up anthropology stories. Like the myth about the Inuit having 20 different words for snow. Nice story but total crap, (at least according to Pinker). I’ll believe that the Hadza people were fucking with the anthropologists way before I believe they didn’t (don’t) have numbers over 3.
If couriers can fuck with Gibson than the Hadza can mess with anthropologists.
What disinformation did the couriers feed Gibson?
that is a good point, Joester. I think I've seen something from Pinker on this exact subject. Googling...googling...
Tom, I'd answer your question but I can't remember the dang word. Joester will have to come back.
oh shoot I don't either. If Tom doesn't know could it be all a myth? googling googling....
Myths upon myths. Yes its possible. It had to do with some word that was implied in Gibson's books to mean some kind of deep and spiritual understanding, but originally just meant weed in a very pragmatic sense. But memory fails me.
M. Jean keeps emailing me off-blog accusing me of creating a hoax using chocolate eggs.
She's worried about her home being a crime scene. (you should have put police tape around that cedar, that'll show her!)
That's not her home. She's just naturally suspicious.
Well, here's the seed of my discontent: I have a bag of little chocolate eggs on my kitchen table that are dead ringers for the (putative) chipping sparrow eggs. And there are fewer of them in the bag now than there were before Sally came here for the Diorama Extravaganza.
lies!
I wanted to take some but I didn't. If I had, it would've been to eat them.
I have a Knowledgeable Friend who says there's a theory (hotly debated, but out there in science-land) to explain the cowbird behaviour. They used to be nomadic, and followed the buffalo herds. So they couldn't stop off to tend their own eggs. Then the buffalo disappeared and they switched to cattle, but kept the behaviour.
To be honest, I didn't factor in the chocolate eggs that I myself have eaten.
I was looking at the nest above with GVB's young nephew who was pretty pissed off at the cowbird. I believe "that's not very nice" were his exact words. I was trying to put forward the view that cowbirds gotta have babies too and this is just their way, but it didn't fly. Seems like the conservationists are in agreement with him. Cowbirds present an increasing threat to other species, due in part to human agricultural practices. In searching for the buffalo story I found this informative essay. Also note, above I quoted a website saying they can lay up to 80 eggs per season, but several other websites have put the number at more like 40 (which is still a lot).
By the way, if anyone thinks I am seriously procrastinating on the projects I'm supposed to be doing by impulsively reading up on cowbirds, you are correct!
A stunning cowbird photo from Alex here. Thanks dude!
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On the first day the nest had three little pale blue dotted eggs. On the second day one egg was missing, one was hanging in the tree and there was a big fat brown spotted egg smack in the middle of things. Cowbird infiltrating a chipping sparrow nest?
- sally mckay 4-24-2007 6:25 pm
I was just reading a recently discovered thing about how female cowbirds will lurk around the surrogate nest, and beat the crap out of the host bird if it messes with her eggs.
- rob (guest) 4-24-2007 6:48 pm
Huh. That shows a bit of maternal investment. The cowbird link I posted says that they can lay up to 80 eggs in a two-month period.
- sally mckay 4-24-2007 7:10 pm
If a cowbird goes to the trouble of replacing original nest eggs with her own, rather than just adding to the nest, does this mean that birds can count?
Could someone not me get on that?
- L.M. 4-24-2007 8:14 pm
Potatoes can count, why not birds?
- M.Jean 4-24-2007 8:26 pm
I'm not sure if the egg-replacing bit is always part of the program. That might have been a happy accident. From what I gather, the aggro cow-chick takes care of it's rivals by hatching early.
- sally mckay 4-24-2007 8:49 pm
Animals can count.
- J@simpleposie (guest) 4-24-2007 9:28 pm
I've taken a herding dog on hikes with other people/dogs. He seems to do head counts on a regular basis. He really doesn't like it if the group doesn't stay together. That's not quite the same as counting indistinguishable items.
- mark 4-24-2007 9:43 pm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070305202649.htm
- rob (guest) 4-24-2007 9:58 pm
What a great post...way to go getting all that on camera. What an adventure! I loved that article that Rob posted...incredible.
If you, or any of your visitors likes animals and animal culture(of course animals can count, they also teach their kids to wash up) read The Ape and The Sushi Master by deWaal.
- Candy Minx (guest) 4-24-2007 10:13 pm
I was about to declare that they are vindictive little fuckers after reading Rob's link, but according to this study cuckoos are nastier.
Where's my gun? (Can't tell the difference so I'll shoot a swan.)
- L.M. 4-24-2007 10:29 pm
"Additional tests by Hauser and other researchers reveal that monkeys can count up to four. The human ability to count to higher numbers apparently came only after we evolved language and developed words to describe quantities like 25 and 1,000.
Some human cultures still don't use large numbers. The Hadza people, hunter-gatherers in Tanzania, for example, have words only for "one," "two," and "three"; anything more is "many." They are aware that a picture with 30 dots displays a larger number than one with 20 dots (as are monkeys), but they have no words for the precise numbers of dots."
- sally mckay 4-24-2007 10:58 pm
Sometimes I suspected that Rocco understood infinity.
- L.M. 4-24-2007 11:30 pm
Sally, that sounds like one of those fucked up anthropology stories. Like the myth about the Inuit having 20 different words for snow. Nice story but total crap, (at least according to Pinker). I’ll believe that the Hadza people were fucking with the anthropologists way before I believe they didn’t (don’t) have numbers over 3.
If couriers can fuck with Gibson than the Hadza can mess with anthropologists.
- joester 4-25-2007 11:33 am
What disinformation did the couriers feed Gibson?
- tom moody 4-25-2007 11:48 am
that is a good point, Joester. I think I've seen something from Pinker on this exact subject. Googling...googling...
Tom, I'd answer your question but I can't remember the dang word. Joester will have to come back.
- sally mckay 4-25-2007 7:13 pm
oh shoot I don't either. If Tom doesn't know could it be all a myth? googling googling....
- joester 4-25-2007 8:36 pm
Myths upon myths. Yes its possible. It had to do with some word that was implied in Gibson's books to mean some kind of deep and spiritual understanding, but originally just meant weed in a very pragmatic sense. But memory fails me.
- sally mckay 4-25-2007 8:46 pm
M. Jean keeps emailing me off-blog accusing me of creating a hoax using chocolate eggs.
- sally mckay 4-26-2007 2:54 am
She's worried about her home being a crime scene. (you should have put police tape around that cedar, that'll show her!)
- L.M. 4-26-2007 3:25 am
That's not her home. She's just naturally suspicious.
- sally mckay 4-26-2007 4:29 am
Well, here's the seed of my discontent: I have a bag of little chocolate eggs on my kitchen table that are dead ringers for the (putative) chipping sparrow eggs. And there are fewer of them in the bag now than there were before Sally came here for the Diorama Extravaganza.
- M.Jean 4-26-2007 6:12 am
lies!
- sally mckay 4-26-2007 8:02 am
I wanted to take some but I didn't. If I had, it would've been to eat them.
- sally mckay 4-26-2007 8:02 am
I have a Knowledgeable Friend who says there's a theory (hotly debated, but out there in science-land) to explain the cowbird behaviour. They used to be nomadic, and followed the buffalo herds. So they couldn't stop off to tend their own eggs. Then the buffalo disappeared and they switched to cattle, but kept the behaviour.
To be honest, I didn't factor in the chocolate eggs that I myself have eaten.
- M.Jean 4-26-2007 8:03 pm
I was looking at the nest above with GVB's young nephew who was pretty pissed off at the cowbird. I believe "that's not very nice" were his exact words. I was trying to put forward the view that cowbirds gotta have babies too and this is just their way, but it didn't fly. Seems like the conservationists are in agreement with him. Cowbirds present an increasing threat to other species, due in part to human agricultural practices. In searching for the buffalo story I found this informative essay. Also note, above I quoted a website saying they can lay up to 80 eggs per season, but several other websites have put the number at more like 40 (which is still a lot).
By the way, if anyone thinks I am seriously procrastinating on the projects I'm supposed to be doing by impulsively reading up on cowbirds, you are correct!
- sally mckay 4-26-2007 9:23 pm
A stunning cowbird photo from Alex here. Thanks dude!
- sally mckay 5-02-2007 7:35 pm