"If there's any better definition of high crimes and misdemeanors in our Constitution, than misleading or fabricating the basis for going to war, as the press has documented ad infinitum, I don't know any cause of impeachment that's worse." Who said that--John Kerry? Tom Daschle? Don't make me laugh. No, it was Ralph Nader, the man conservative Democrats love to hate (on Meet the Press). Look, you don't have to vote for him, but shouldn't we all be happy if his candidacy gives him a platform to say what mainstream pols are too gutless to say?
At the risk of stating the obvious:
I guess it depends if you are a "real" democrat, in the sense of really wanting the DNC power base to be in charge, or if you are a "temporary" democrat, in the sense of holding your nose and siding with the democrats for a particular election because all other options are unacceptable. "Real" democrats should hate Nader (and Dean, and kucinich, etc...) and try to destroy them. "Temporary" democrats should, in some way, be in favor of such independent voices.
I'm definitely a temporary dem. I didn't vote last time, but would have voted for Nader if I had. This time around there is no way I will not vote for the democratic nominee. Bush is just too evil. But if a dem gets in I will then turn my attention to getting someone even better in next time. I suspect most of us here are in this same group.
Those are my exact sentiments. Someone I know just wrote a long hateful missive to the Nader campaign--I'd love to see him directing that same energy towards the real problem.
I just watched Nader's MTP appearance. He kicked major butt. He's willing to cut through all the bullshit and speak the truth. I'm glad he reserved his harshest words for Bush. Given that California is a safe state for Kerry/Edwards '04 (more on that later), I just might vote for Ralph again. And this time I hope Ralph is smart enough to pull out in the battlegound states.
Also on MTP was the Beg-inator. Ahnold, he iz zaying dat de Prezident Bush will be giving the money and dose sorts of things to de Cahlifornia and dat all de peoples of de Cahlifornia will be giving de vote to de Prezident Bush because dey are selfish and all that.
Riiiight. I just hope Bush is dumb enough to buy that movie.
i like ralph but i felt that his rhetoric at times was at odds with his beliefs. im pretty sure he said that gore would have got us into war in iraq. i dont think he entirely believed it as he was saying it. also russert pulled a quote where nader had nice things to say about john edwards. nader could have managed to say something positive about edwards without it diluting naders contention that both parties are in the thrall of corporations.
"Confessions of a Naderite" by John R. MacArthur
"Before condemning Mr. Nader for splitting the anti-Bush vote and
possibly granting another four years of Bush depredations, recall just
how corrupted, how Republican, was the Democratic Party in 2000 as
represented by Mr. Gore, and is now under the heading of John Kerry for
president."
(thanks to ben for the link)
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"If there's any better definition of high crimes and misdemeanors in our Constitution, than misleading or fabricating the basis for going to war, as the press has documented ad infinitum, I don't know any cause of impeachment that's worse." Who said that--John Kerry? Tom Daschle? Don't make me laugh. No, it was Ralph Nader, the man conservative Democrats love to hate (on Meet the Press). Look, you don't have to vote for him, but shouldn't we all be happy if his candidacy gives him a platform to say what mainstream pols are too gutless to say?
- tom moody 2-23-2004 9:20 pm
At the risk of stating the obvious:
I guess it depends if you are a "real" democrat, in the sense of really wanting the DNC power base to be in charge, or if you are a "temporary" democrat, in the sense of holding your nose and siding with the democrats for a particular election because all other options are unacceptable. "Real" democrats should hate Nader (and Dean, and kucinich, etc...) and try to destroy them. "Temporary" democrats should, in some way, be in favor of such independent voices.
I'm definitely a temporary dem. I didn't vote last time, but would have voted for Nader if I had. This time around there is no way I will not vote for the democratic nominee. Bush is just too evil. But if a dem gets in I will then turn my attention to getting someone even better in next time. I suspect most of us here are in this same group.
- jim 2-23-2004 9:38 pm
Those are my exact sentiments. Someone I know just wrote a long hateful missive to the Nader campaign--I'd love to see him directing that same energy towards the real problem.
- tom moody 2-23-2004 10:52 pm
I just watched Nader's MTP appearance. He kicked major butt. He's willing to cut through all the bullshit and speak the truth. I'm glad he reserved his harshest words for Bush. Given that California is a safe state for Kerry/Edwards '04 (more on that later), I just might vote for Ralph again. And this time I hope Ralph is smart enough to pull out in the battlegound states.
Also on MTP was the Beg-inator. Ahnold, he iz zaying dat de Prezident Bush will be giving the money and dose sorts of things to de Cahlifornia and dat all de peoples of de Cahlifornia will be giving de vote to de Prezident Bush because dey are selfish and all that.
Riiiight. I just hope Bush is dumb enough to buy that movie.
- mark 2-24-2004 7:53 am
i like ralph but i felt that his rhetoric at times was at odds with his beliefs. im pretty sure he said that gore would have got us into war in iraq. i dont think he entirely believed it as he was saying it. also russert pulled a quote where nader had nice things to say about john edwards. nader could have managed to say something positive about edwards without it diluting naders contention that both parties are in the thrall of corporations.
- dave 2-24-2004 8:24 am
"Confessions of a Naderite" by John R. MacArthur
(thanks to ben for the link)- sally mckay 2-29-2004 10:24 pm