Posting this live from Symantec Hell. Mac users please stop reading and keep your comments to yourself. I prefer my PC but this is the downside. Yesterday my Norton Internet Security and Antivirus switched off. I rebooted, ran security and antivirus scans, no bugs shown, but my assumption is some internet pest has found a way to turn off Norton and not allow the user (under "Options") to turn it back on. Call the 800 number, go through all the voice prompts, push 1 for "virus" (big mistake) and after 30 minutes get routed to an Indian call center. (A big fuck you to Symantec for screwing your own countrymen out of the shit wages they need.) The Indian gentleman asks me to do what I already did, which is run the security risks scan. I tell him it pulled up no threats, but I assume there's a threat because my Norton can't be turned on. He says he can't help me and will transfer me to a technician who "will help you get your Norton turned back on." That was 30 minutes of holding ago. Can anyone recommend a good security/antivirus product for the PC/Windows other than Norton?
FWIW I use Firefox for browsing and the firewall that came with Windows Service Pack 2 so I'm not completely naked here.
UPDATE: One of Thomas Friedman's shock troops of the capitalist future in Bangalore or wherever walked me through an uninstall/reinstall and Norton is back up now, with one lingering Live Update issue that may require yet another uninstall/reinstall. Total phone time: approximately 2.5 hours. At least they didn't charge me. Thanks, Paul, for the info on other companies. For the record I am not a prejudiced person but I believe American companies have an obligation to the communities that nurture them (meaning, provide basic needs and a good lifestlye for the executive class) not to export jobs.
AVG free for virus, Spybot + AdAware for spyware, Hijack This if you get stubborn spyware, Firefox for browsing the world wide web.
antivirus.com free online scan for quick virus assessment.
Norton is intrusive/clunky in my experience and has generated more "blue screens" than I can count, including some lethal ones.
I switched to McAfee - just the antivirus subscription and configure it for manual update and email scan - be aware of what is running in the background (from the run command run "msconfig" and remove whatever you don't want in the systray at startup). Don't bother with other McAfee stuff, just the antivirus subscription. OK to allow automatic updates.
Use Webroot's Window Washer and Spy Sweeper programs (Spybot was shareware but seems to have been abandoned - you gotta pay for this shit now unfortunately). Run periodically rather than configured to run at start up where there is more opportunity for conflicts. If you have WLAN/LAN and use another firewall like Zone Alarm you'll need to allow permissions for the above.
PS - you'll inevitably need to toggle back and forth between Mozilla and IE on these, particularly on the automatic updates that use Active X controls (Firefox won't allow). Even in IE for updates you'll need to at least temporarily enable "pop up" windows. Firefox has an extension to open an IE window but I don't know how we'll it works , particularly with these apps
sorry.... but..... Mac Minis just came out and they are only $500! (oops)
Thanks--my Norton expires at the end of March and I'll be looking at these options (except for the Mini). FWIW the Symantec person did a follow-up phone call and an email to make sure the LiveUpdate problem is fixed, and it is now, at least on the software's own self-diagnostic terms. As for the Mac Mini, Steve Gilliard asks, and maybe JimB or others can answer: Before you start with the "Steve hates Apple" posts, let's get something straight. This is not a critique of Jobs, OSX or Macs in general. My question is who are these things going to be sold to? The Shuffle is a clearly inferior product to any number of flash drive players with LCD screens and more song capacity.
So, for $500, I have to turn this box into a computer? Why? Who is this targeted to? Who is going to buy it? I don't know. The fact is that small form factor machines have been around for a few years, we call them fragboxes, and they come with more power. Shuttle makes a few barebones which have two drives.
So what is the market for this. Clearly, it's not for Mac-using professionals, since it doesn't have enough power.It's not for Windows users, since it won't run their software. Maybe it's for schools. I don't know. I am genuinely confused as to who buys this product.
It is very funny to me that this question about why anyone would buy a Mac is being asked in a thread that is about the hell it is to own a Windows computer.
I wish I understood the deep seated resentment of Apple. Is it just that Apple boosters are annoying (like the way maybe dead heads are annoying, or any group that believes too much in what they believe in?)
The Mini will sell well because it is a cheap way for people to try out the clearly superior Mac OS X. I say it is clearly superior for a number of reasons, but they all rest on the open source UNIX foundation, and the way Apple has completely embraced open source tools and protocols. For one specific example of how this superiority plays out in the real world, see your original post above.
I really don't know much about Steve Gilliard, but I will suggest that he doesn't know much about computers if he thinks the Mini is underpowered. My guess is that he thinks that the speed of a computer is somehow dictated by the clock speed alone, and thus a 1.2 Ghz G4+ must be slower than a 3 Ghz Intel or AMD chip. "It's 2.8 Ghz slower!" This is simply wrong.
As for the iPod Shuffle I'll just point out that this is exactly what people said about the original iPod. "It's just the same as every other player already out there - and the specs aren't even as good!" This might be true, but it completely misses the point. People don't buy these things on specs, they buy them for the total package. And Apple's total package is so much better than anyone else's (Rio? Creative? Please...) that it's like no one else even realizes they should be creating a complete idea and not just a widget.
It's like asking, "who would ever buy anything from Prada when there is J.C. Penny? Both use thread and cotton, so why should I pay more for the Prada? Plus, Prada's stuff is all black and doesn't have as many buttons. They are so going to fail!"
This kind of misses the point as to what Prada is actually selling, no?
The Shuffle and the Mini will both sell very well. And it doesn't have anything to do with Gigahertz, LCD screens, bells, whistles, or how many drives you can fit inside the computer.
Or so I say. I guess time will tell.
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Posting this live from Symantec Hell. Mac users please stop reading and keep your comments to yourself. I prefer my PC but this is the downside. Yesterday my Norton Internet Security and Antivirus switched off. I rebooted, ran security and antivirus scans, no bugs shown, but my assumption is some internet pest has found a way to turn off Norton and not allow the user (under "Options") to turn it back on. Call the 800 number, go through all the voice prompts, push 1 for "virus" (big mistake) and after 30 minutes get routed to an Indian call center. (A big fuck you to Symantec for screwing your own countrymen out of the shit wages they need.) The Indian gentleman asks me to do what I already did, which is run the security risks scan. I tell him it pulled up no threats, but I assume there's a threat because my Norton can't be turned on. He says he can't help me and will transfer me to a technician who "will help you get your Norton turned back on." That was 30 minutes of holding ago. Can anyone recommend a good security/antivirus product for the PC/Windows other than Norton?
FWIW I use Firefox for browsing and the firewall that came with Windows Service Pack 2 so I'm not completely naked here.
UPDATE: One of Thomas Friedman's shock troops of the capitalist future in Bangalore or wherever walked me through an uninstall/reinstall and Norton is back up now, with one lingering Live Update issue that may require yet another uninstall/reinstall. Total phone time: approximately 2.5 hours. At least they didn't charge me. Thanks, Paul, for the info on other companies. For the record I am not a prejudiced person but I believe American companies have an obligation to the communities that nurture them (meaning, provide basic needs and a good lifestlye for the executive class) not to export jobs.
- tom moody 1-12-2005 9:09 pm
AVG free for virus, Spybot + AdAware for spyware, Hijack This if you get stubborn spyware, Firefox for browsing the world wide web.
antivirus.com free online scan for quick virus assessment.
- paul (guest) 1-12-2005 9:14 pm
Norton is intrusive/clunky in my experience and has generated more "blue screens" than I can count, including some lethal ones.
I switched to McAfee - just the antivirus subscription and configure it for manual update and email scan - be aware of what is running in the background (from the run command run "msconfig" and remove whatever you don't want in the systray at startup). Don't bother with other McAfee stuff, just the antivirus subscription. OK to allow automatic updates.
Use Webroot's Window Washer and Spy Sweeper programs (Spybot was shareware but seems to have been abandoned - you gotta pay for this shit now unfortunately). Run periodically rather than configured to run at start up where there is more opportunity for conflicts. If you have WLAN/LAN and use another firewall like Zone Alarm you'll need to allow permissions for the above.
- SHM (guest) 1-12-2005 10:40 pm
PS - you'll inevitably need to toggle back and forth between Mozilla and IE on these, particularly on the automatic updates that use Active X controls (Firefox won't allow). Even in IE for updates you'll need to at least temporarily enable "pop up" windows. Firefox has an extension to open an IE window but I don't know how we'll it works , particularly with these apps
- SHM (guest) 1-12-2005 10:46 pm
sorry.... but..... Mac Minis just came out and they are only $500! (oops)
- Abraham Kalashnikov (guest) 1-12-2005 11:43 pm
Thanks--my Norton expires at the end of March and I'll be looking at these options (except for the Mini). FWIW the Symantec person did a follow-up phone call and an email to make sure the LiveUpdate problem is fixed, and it is now, at least on the software's own self-diagnostic terms. As for the Mac Mini, Steve Gilliard asks, and maybe JimB or others can answer:
- tom moody 1-13-2005 4:46 pm
It is very funny to me that this question about why anyone would buy a Mac is being asked in a thread that is about the hell it is to own a Windows computer.
I wish I understood the deep seated resentment of Apple. Is it just that Apple boosters are annoying (like the way maybe dead heads are annoying, or any group that believes too much in what they believe in?)
The Mini will sell well because it is a cheap way for people to try out the clearly superior Mac OS X. I say it is clearly superior for a number of reasons, but they all rest on the open source UNIX foundation, and the way Apple has completely embraced open source tools and protocols. For one specific example of how this superiority plays out in the real world, see your original post above.
I really don't know much about Steve Gilliard, but I will suggest that he doesn't know much about computers if he thinks the Mini is underpowered. My guess is that he thinks that the speed of a computer is somehow dictated by the clock speed alone, and thus a 1.2 Ghz G4+ must be slower than a 3 Ghz Intel or AMD chip. "It's 2.8 Ghz slower!" This is simply wrong.
As for the iPod Shuffle I'll just point out that this is exactly what people said about the original iPod. "It's just the same as every other player already out there - and the specs aren't even as good!" This might be true, but it completely misses the point. People don't buy these things on specs, they buy them for the total package. And Apple's total package is so much better than anyone else's (Rio? Creative? Please...) that it's like no one else even realizes they should be creating a complete idea and not just a widget.
It's like asking, "who would ever buy anything from Prada when there is J.C. Penny? Both use thread and cotton, so why should I pay more for the Prada? Plus, Prada's stuff is all black and doesn't have as many buttons. They are so going to fail!"
This kind of misses the point as to what Prada is actually selling, no?
The Shuffle and the Mini will both sell very well. And it doesn't have anything to do with Gigahertz, LCD screens, bells, whistles, or how many drives you can fit inside the computer.
Or so I say. I guess time will tell.
- jim 1-13-2005 7:32 pm
- bill 1-25-2005 4:15 am